Can Gundam become a stadium sport (Megabots CEO interview)?

In June 2015, a giant robot and a production team in the United States and its production teams fought on Japanese "Kratas" in YouTube.Immediately, Suidobashi Heavy Industries, the creator of Kratas, also responded to the video.The interaction of teams in the two countries that tries to make the giant robot of the SF world reality reality has become a big topic, and the number of videos has reached a total of 12 million times.

After that, MEGABOTS announced the second and third -generation robots on YouTube.In April 2017, a new rival "Monkey King" appeared from China.

Today, 10/18 Japan time at 11:00, Megabots and Kratas have finally been released to the world!

GUI CAVALCANTI

Co-Founder & CEO of MegaBots, Inc

After graduating from college, Alphabet Inc.Worked as a mechanic engineer in Boston Dynamics, a robot venture acquired by SoftBank.After the launch of multiple projects, such as maker space and large robot production of six -legged walks, he founded MEGABOTS in 2014.

Gundam lovers to robot engineers

後藤：MegaBotsをはじめて見た人はどんな反応をするんでしょうか？

Gui：いつもアニメや映画で見ていたようなロボットが現実になるというのは、誰も想像していなかったことなので、最初はみなものすごく驚いて、その後に大声を出して笑い、最後に「ありがとう」と言ってくれます。（笑）

Some people cried while crying, "Thank you for making your dream reality."

後藤：MegaBotsのアイデアを最初に思いついたのはいつ頃なんですか？

Gui：今思うと、MegaBotsのプロジェクトは僕が小さい子供のときから始まっていたんだと思います。「ガンダム」とか「Robotech」、「トランスフォーマー」のようなロボットSFの映画やアニメが大好きで、「MechWarrior」というロボットを操縦するシューティングゲームをいつもやっていました。

Anyway, I liked a big robot, so when I was a high school student, I decided to become a robot engineer in the future.The university went on to the Robotics Engineering major and specialized in the field of bi -like design (biological imitation design).This is a research field that reproduces the movements of animals such as humans and dogs with a robot.In fact, many of the technologies that move modern robots have been hints from the movements that exist in nature.

As I became more and more enthusiastic about the robot engineering world, I started working as a mechanic engineer shortly after graduation.Boston Dynamics later worked as a system design engineer and was able to involve various projects, such as the famous BIGDOG project (see the underwriting).

I couldn't say "I'm making a huge robot"

Gui：僕がロボットのパーツを作っていた場所は、僕自身が仲間と一緒に立ち上げたメカニカルエンジニアやいわゆるMakerのための工具やツールが置いてあるコワーキングスペースだったんですが、ある時エンジェル投資家がそこにやってきて、何か面白いプロジェクトをやっている人はいないか、と僕に聞いてきたんです。

To be honest, I thought it would be a joke to say, "I'm trying to move the robot of the science fiction world in reality," so I was ashamed and didn't say it at first.I've never heard of anyone who spends more than 2 million yen on their own and makes a huge robot arm or foot prototype seriously.(smile)

Instead of saying that investors are parts of huge robots, they explained the parts scattered all over the place."This electrical system may be used for construction machinery." "This hydraulic arm is applied to △△ technology and may be used for XX."

However, in reality, there is no demand for construction machinery, such as electricity, such as electric power shovels, in reality.So, after hearing my explanation, the investor, "What are you making for? I can't use it for any business as it is, but you are" something ".I understand that I'm working on this for a specific purpose. "(smile)

At that moment, I felt that I was still skeptical between my friends and my colleagues.I told him, "I'm actually thinking of making a huge fighting robot."

後藤：そこからMegaBotsが本格的に始まったんですね。

Gui：そうです。そこで投資家の人に、MegaBotsのコンセプト画を見せて、改めてそれまで作ってきたプロタイプについて説明し、投資をしてもらえることになり、共同創業者のMattと一緒に2014年に会社を立ち上げました。まだ100%このコンセプトが事業になるのかどうかは分かりませんでしたが、子供の頃からずっと夢だったことに挑戦できることにとてもワクワクしていました。

後藤：共同創業者のMattはどんな方なんですか？

Gui：Mattはデトロイトで僕と同じようにMakerスペースを運営していました。

When I decided to start a company, I called Mattt and said, "Please come to Boston now," and moved three weeks later.(smile)

As with me, he was a very small hydraulic expert in the robot engineering world, and I was the best combination that complemented the strengths of mechanic, Matt's electric system and software.。

The task I felt in the world of engineering was the same.I and MATT have previously appeared on the Discovery Channel program called "The Big Brain Theory: Pure Genius".This is a program in which two engineers tackle the technical task given for three days and compete for the quality of the product.When I actually came out, I felt that there was a better way to show people in the world to understand the world of technology and engineering, and to enjoy it.

All members of MEGABOTS, including engineers, are "entertainer".It is not a company that simply manufactures.

Not a company that makes a robot

後藤：最近はドローンレースなど、新しいテクノロジーを使ったエンターテイメントが登場しています。「エンジニアリング」と「エンターテイメント」の間で事業を定義するのはとても難しいと思いますがMegaBotsは会社として事業をどのように定義していますか？

Gui：それはとても重要なポイントで、僕たちも会社を立ち上げるときにたくさん議論をしました。

We define Megabots as "Entertainment Company Making Robots".This is completely different when it comes to "Robotics Company Making Entertainment".

If it is the latter, Megabots will be a robot company, all activities will be done to create high -performance robots, and the entertainment part will be positioned as a sidework.

However, if the entertainment is a business core, everyday questions are naturally "how to shoot this robot action", "how to look cool", and "will the audience like it?" Become.

MeGabots is making a "new sport", and you have to look at the world where fans put robots posters in the room beyond their business activities.Making a robot is a means, and the goal of Megabots is to realize the dream world that people who love robot science fiction have.

Many projects that exist in the world end with no one knowing at the end of a long development period.In a friend's car project, the cars that were being developed were in the garage all the time, and it is not unusual for a robot venture to end the company without anyone knowing the existence of the product.

A normal robot venture is enough to take a picture and upload it to the Internet when the prototype is completed, and there are almost no other photos, videos, and the product after 10 years.There is almost no evidence.

Again, Megabots is an entertainment company and focuses on the story of the product from the moment of start.Even in the production process, we will always work while thinking about where to shoot and how to keep photos and videos and keep the production period from delaying.We are still trial and error to find the best balance between development and shooting, engineering and entertainment.

Market potential of "SF Live Entertainment"

後藤： ビジネスとしてのマーケットポテンシャルはどのように考えているんでしょうか？

Gui：「巨大ロボットが戦うライブエンターテイメント」にどのくらいの市場規模があるかは、SFエンターテイメントとスポーツビジネス両方の数字を参考にしています。なぜならMegaBotsはその両方の側面を備えているからです。

MEGABOTS can first go to a market such as a movie theater and a toy sale, like many science fiction content, such as Transformers.Transformers have earned a total of about 500 billion yen in movies, and are said to be less than 100 billion yen for toy sales.

In addition to this, Megabots can sell tickets for live events at stadiums like sports events.If you look at the box office success of F1, the largest technology sport, it is clear that live entertainment, which is created by the danger and adjacent match, will be a big business.

For three years since I started MEGABOTS's concept, I was asking myself about, "Can Megabots can incorporate both SF and live entertainment?"I believe that technology evolution is now possible.

Aviation, construction and crafts' latest technology aggregates

後藤：具体的には何のテクノロジーの進化が、MegaBotsのプロジェクトの実現を可能させているのですか？

Gui：MegaBotsを作るためには、複数の業界におけるイノベーションを集約させなくてはいけませんでした。特に、航空機と、建設機械と、工作機械のテクノロジーです。

For example, MEGABOTS valve actuators, which are equivalent to muscles in humans, can adjust the hydraulic pressure in an ultra -precision, but apply the latest machine tool technology just released a few years ago.

MEGABOTS's undercarriage uses a construction machine's powertrain system, but it's really recent that the technology of construction machinery has made it possible to get such power more stably.

And the software installed is based on those developed in 2015 in the DARPA Robotics Challenge, a disaster rescue robot contest hosted by the United States Pentagon (DARPA).We are currently developing a technology to make megabots walk two pairs.In addition, some sensors are used in aircraft.

It is a difficult challenge just to make one MEGABOTS, but we are aiming for dozens of robots at the same level, and the quality of the operation is not reduced even in bad weather.If you do not reach that level, you will not be able to create "live entertainment" like F1.We are studying the latest mechanics of machinery in all industries and have already reached the level of technical levels that can make more than 10 robots.

後藤：例えばドローンレースは今「スポーツ」として世界中でイベントが開かれる様になっていますが、ドローンはアメリカではおもちゃ屋で20ドルで売られていて、子供でも買って遊ぶことが出来ます。それに比べると、ロボットバトルはまだ「スポーツ」になるまでに大分時間がかかりそうな気がします。

Gui：確かに、対戦用巨大ロボットの値段が20ドルになることは無いかもしれませんが、MegaBots の制作コストは既にF1マシンや、ボストン・ダイナミクスで僕が作っていたヒト型や犬型のロボットよりは安いわけです。

This is evidence that the quality of the commodity parts, which produces millions of construction machinery and machine tools, has become enough performance to move MEGABOTS.If technology evolves as it is, the manufacturing cost will still decrease.

Innovation born from "robot F1"

後藤：F1でメーカーがスピードを競うことで、自動車はいろんな部分で進化したと思います。MegaBotsのイメージする世界で、一番強いロボットを目指してチームが競うことで、どんなイノベーションが起きると思いますか？

Gui：F1レース用のマシンは、各メーカーにとって最新のテクノロジーのテストプラットフォームです。「もっとパワーを出すには」「動力効率を上げるには」。最新のテクノロジーをテストしてF1でフィードバックした結果が市販車に還元されます。これは、F1という舞台があって、そこで勝つことに対する価値が認められているからこそ起こる競争であり、イノベーションです。

If MEGABOTS becomes a tournament that determines the strongest robot like F1 in the car, there will be innovation for "winning" in the same way.

In order to win, you will not be a robot that can win the pilot movement to the robot quickly and accurately, protect the safety of the pilot, and to lower the cost to fight continuously.

For example, let's consider the operation of hitting the right straight.After the pilot puts the right hand in front, the right hand of MEGABOTS swings to it, 0 before actually punching out..Suppose you have a delay of 5 seconds.If the robot rotates and punches late after the pilot extends his right hand, the cockpit and the pilot shake, the controller shakes, the control is ineffective, and the next attack cannot be made.In order to increase the possibility of a robot to win, you need innovation to zero the time lag of the pilot and the actual robot movement.

Once such innovation is born, it may be diverted to technology for industrial machinery.For example, if the power shovel is excavating, the driver's movement and the shovel arm are linked with zero time lag, the excavation work will be faster.Megabots technology may be applied to robots to remove large rubble during a disaster.In this way, I think that there is an "innovation that is born only because it aims to win in a giant robot battle".

後藤：なるほど。

Gui：良いロボット企業には全て、強みのある領域があります。

For example, IROBOT, which makes a robot of a home cleaning robot or a robot called PACBOT used for military or unmanned exploration in the event of a disaster, is good at creating a "small electric robot that can run stably even in non -organized areas".is.Similarly, some companies create a "robot that has strengths in water."

The MEGABOTS team is good at "electric robots that move quickly with a weight of about 5-10 tons".We believe that the "strengths" of hard software cultivated in this area can be useful in other situations such as disasters.

Looking at what Megabots is doing, some people say, "It's just a play," but it's right and wrong.There are many technologies born in places that have nothing to do with everyday life.GPS comes from military technology, and materials born during space technology are used for clothing.

The world is always better when someone challenges something, and the world is only better when people challenge and compete.Some criticize F1 that a car running at 300 km / h is a waste of fossil fuels, "but the fact that the technology related to cars has evolved significantly by creating a mechanism and environment to challenge the limits of cars.It is an unmistakable fact.

It is inevitable that some people can not understand the challenge of megabots at this time.Certainly, it is natural that some people seem ridiculous to develop a huge robot that can only be punched or bombarded, and in fact, the technology used in megabots is still in real world.So.I think our role is to keep doing it as a pioneer.

However, entertainment creates culture, and the culture moves people.In the United States, there have been TV programs that make robots and machinery, such as Mythbusters, Junkyard Wars, and Battlebots.Just as I saw it and became an engineer, people should be inspired by really cool entertainment.

It would be great if the children were looking at megabots and the children would say, "I'll make more amazing things."

後藤：まさにMegaBotsとクラタスに刺激を受けて、中国も参戦してきましたね。

Gui：はい。「俺のほうが強くてクールなロボットを作れる」というエンジニアにはどんどん僕たちにチャレンジしに来てほしいです。

It is very interesting that the United States, Japan, China, and all the different ways of thinking about robots are different.Kratas has a head part because it values humanoid designs more, but Megabots has a cockpit but has no head.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of design will be when a German robot or a British robot appears.

In F1, "winning" and "fast thing" are synonymous, so the design of the machine naturally is cut off, and basically all have the same structure.However, as the number of martial arts is the same as the number of countries, the way to win in a robot battle is to defeat, grab the arms, and strike a paint ball to a cockpit to deprive you of the view.I think that the team's personality will appear much more on the machine than F1.

Contents that only engineers can enjoy do not spread

後藤：いろんなチームが勝つためにいろんなデザインや戦略を採用すると、スポーツとしてのルールを定めるのが難しい気がします。

Gui：そこはこれまで僕たちが一番議論を重ねてきたところで、結論から言えば、エンターテイメントとしてのロボットのバトルは、2本の腕があって直立に立つ人型ロボットでなくてはいけないと思っています。

If you just pursue "win", you will actually reach the form of a tank.However, it is not interesting to enter the opponent by hitting each other by hitting each other, hitting each other, or putting a wedge -like thing under the opponent and scooping it up.

There is a robot battle show called Battlebots, which is a popular American TV program, but after all, all the winning robots have a wedge -shaped edge in front and turn over the opponent upside down, so those who are watching are not interesting.I did it.

The pursuit of "winning" from an engineer's point of view and whether it is "interesting" from the viewpoint of the audience is not always the same.If the audience gets bored, it will end as an entertainment at that point.

MEGABOTS is not an engineering company, but an entertainment company, so the priority is to enjoy it first.Our goal is to make the world of science fiction, which many people have dreamed of since childhood, a real sports entertainment.

In the world of science fiction entertainment in the past 50 years, Gundam, Transformers, Astro Boy Atom, and other leaders have always been fighting enemies using two arms.So, the robot that participates in Megabots must be a humanoid robot, not a tank.Today's megabots have a caterpillar, but I think we need to walk two legs in the future.

後藤：ロボットのバトルと言う意味では、人工知能を搭載した無人の自動車がスピードを競う「Roborace」も海外では話題になっていますよね。

Gui：人工知能同士で戦うレースがエンターテイメントとして面白いかどうかは、ちょっと疑問です。

Battlebots also operate with a controller to fight each other, but at the end of each game, the losing robot parts are scattered into each other and ends.The pilot does not have the emotional expression that the top athlete in sports shows.

Like Roborace, just fighting artificial intelligence machines will not allow you to be able to overcome the emotions that the F1 race driver show when challenging the limit or that person's story.Competing in sports is just a person, not a machine.It is often said that it is dangerous to put people on Megabots' cockpit, so it is better to have remote control, but if you do so, the battle of a huge robot is one of the interesting videos of YouTube.It will only be gone.

Certainly, it is dangerous that the pilot is in the robot, and it must be more than enough for safety.But if people are in the middle, those who are watching it will be nervous and worry about the pilot (= Care).If the viewer is worried about the pilot, we win.(smile)

The essence of entertainment is that the viewer is worried about what the result will be.

後藤：全くリスクのないスポーツというのは存在しませんからね。

Gui：そうです。アメリカで総合格闘技（UFC）が出てきた時、世論の中には「人の体を壊し合うスポーツを観戦する行為は果たして合法なのか」という議論まで起きました。しかし、そうやって観客を他のどのスポーツよりもハラハラさせる事ができたのが、UFCが近年アメリカで最も早くメジャースポーツの一つになった要因です。見ている人が本気で心配するというのは、その人が強い興味を持って見ている証拠だからです。

From an engineer's point of view, Battlebots and Roborace are the best entertainment, and I also love watching Battlebots, but Megabots is not a "sport where robots fight", but not a "sport where people fight with robots".I don't think it will be an entertainment that many people want.

後藤：「人が戦う」ところにエンターテイメントの本質があるというのはとても面白い視点だと思うのですが、どうやってそのことに気づいたのでしょうか？

Gui：それは、僕たちが既存のSFエンターテイメントのコピーをすることからスタートしたからだと思います。ガンダムでも、アメリカのロボットのアニメのVoltronでも、人が中に乗るタイプですし、トランスフォーマーや鉄腕アトムはそれ自体がキャラクターとしてストーリーの一部になっていますよね。僕が知っている限り、成功したロボットSFは全て人が戦っていましたから。

In Japan, there are other teams other than Cratas who are interested in participating in the Megabots league.Also, there are many robot animations in Japan, so I would like to make those characters and stories realized in Megabots technology.

I would like to be able to show Megabots live shows in 2018, so at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, Japanese robots such as Astro Boy and Gundam will actually show shows around the world.If you can do something, it's great.